myAPPS VDI presentation from ANP/Spencer Schools. This is a solution to run high end programs such as CAD on a Chromebook. More cost effective than AWS.
- Spencer looking for a solution to replace their “Project Lead the Way”
- Just finishing their 2nd year of use
- Web Based Remote Desktop Client
- Apps setup at Spencer: AutoCAD, Revit, BridgeDesigner, Inventor, RobotC, RoboCell, CNC Motion, Flow Arm, MDSolids, Mechanical, CB Designer, CellSetup, Epson Scan.
- Other uses such as the Adobe Suite
- Spencer Cost $28,349 One Time for 50 Concurrent users running above apps.
- Desktop replacement of 50 machines for PLTW $85,000
- AWS Equivalent solution: $36,900/year+
- VPN access is included for outside school connections
- Demo of Solution
- Adds a solution to allow for USB access in the lab for Robots (Or any other USB use)
Contact for quote or more information John Hass
14:02:38 We're going to be doing a vendor presentation today so we'll start off with Landon from Spencer and john for me and P, talk about their product, and then we'll do part two of our regular meeting and talk about the rest of the things on our agenda. 14:02:50 Sounds good. Thanks, Scott. 14:02:55 Got with me john from advanced network professionals. 14:02:56 And so he's the guy that well actually I don't know some of the people here so it's a good group today. 14:03:04 What this kind of started with for us was we were looking for the ability to. We had to Project Lead the Way labs that we're going to need some attention, and by that I mean replacement. 14:03:15 And we really for for our district. 14:03:19 It's a lot easier to have a budget for kind of a one time cost than it is for something that's annual and reoccurring. 14:03:30 And so I kind of started our conversation about what we might be able to build and advanced network professionals is essentially built up built us a solution that we're going to present today. 14:03:41 So we're gonna get started here. 14:03:50 And you guys see that okay. Yeah. All right. Good deal. 14:03:55 Alright so again John's the president advanced our professionals and I'm with Spencer community schools, soon to be with the tumble. 14:04:03 So what we're going to briefly talk about we're not gonna spend a lot of time talking we're I'd rather demo it, so but going to go over some of the common questions here. 14:04:12 how are we using it What is it, what are the costs, how does it compare to AWS can utilize peripherals with it and then our live demo. 14:04:22 So essentially my apps web based remote desktop client, allowing students to utilize Windows applications doesn't just have to be windows but on the Chromebook without the need for an actual installation on the Chromebook. 14:04:36 So with my AP students no longer need to be contained into a single lab if you didn't want them to be they could utilize these essentially anywhere, allowing for more flexibility, this was kind of important for us to some of your buildings are restricted 14:04:52 on space. 14:04:54 I know for our high school principal the ability if she had a larger class size that needed to be in what was traditionally the Project Lead the Way, lab. 14:05:03 Then she could essentially use that classroom for just any other classroom, since our Project Lead the Way stuff no longer needed to reside in a single location. 14:05:14 We do have VPN configured for our students to access my apps from home as well, which they were able to complete a lot large portion of their instruction from home. 14:05:26 So what are we utilizing it for again those are just some of the applications where we have on my apps rabid AutoCAD bridge designer Benner robot see Robo cell CNC motion flow arm and D solids mechanical CB designer cell setup and Epson scan also could 14:05:43 this also could be utilized for like some of your college prep courses your AP courses, some of them have testing applications that are windows base, or if you still need had some classes needing Microsoft Office, or like that kite assessment app. 14:06:01 It could also run, basically the entire Adobe Suite, 14:06:14 A little bit about what it costs so and this is going to be dependent on whether or not you have hardware laying around or not. But essentially the entire product is 28,003 49, and that includes two servers, the installation and the support for those. 14:06:24 Again, this is a essentially a one time cost, and we're, we're hoping that we're going to get at least five years out of this which is similar to probably your, your Project Lead the Way labs breaks down about 50 $600 a year. 14:06:39 One of the questions. Some of you may be asking as well if I've got a server I've just decommissioned Is it possible that I can you know just utilize that server, and the answer is yes just dependent on whether or not that server can support the RAM and 14:06:53 the GPU needed and needed to support my apps. So, if you didn't need those servers, you could essentially take that 28,000 and deduct about 12,000 off of that. 14:07:06 So it really makes this extremely affordable solution in my mind to allow students to utilize these applications john Do you have anything you want to add on that. 14:07:32 No, I think you did real good there. Yep. 14:07:24 So this is supporting for our environment 50 concurrent users accessing the application. So for Spencer that's typically involves one class at the middle school one of about 25 students, and one class in high school about anywhere 15 to 20 students and 14:07:39 and we have no problem with all with all those students all on at the same time, utilizing the platform. So we did compare this if we were just to traditionally replaced the Project Lead the Way, labs with Windows machines, and knowing that the project 14:07:57 Lead the Way lab specs keep increasing significantly year over. 14:08:02 We wanted to be able to purchase a machine that was going to be able to meet the specs five years down the road, which is really tough because they keep asking for more RAM and things like that so we estimated and we actually have an official estimate 14:08:16 for 50 machines to meet the specs was going to cost us approximately 1700 dollars per machine. 14:08:24 And that would that equals out to $85,000 for the number of for the 50 machines we would need that kind of gives you a perspective there and you guys this is nothing new for some of us some of these projects lead the way labs, as you guys know are expensive. 14:08:41 So how does this compare to AWS now again it's going to be completely dependent on which you know app stream 14:08:51 instance you you go with in this case for us, we really didn't want to see a drastic decrease in performance. So we're comparing this with the graphics pro extra large so let's be CPU 32 and 244 gig. 14:09:08 And this is pretty similar to the server specs that are used in my apps john Do you want to talk a little bit about the difference between V CPU and. Yep. 14:09:16 So the difference. The big difference between AWS, and the my apps platform is the students actually on real CPU real metal. So, we find a huge performance increase because of that instead of it being a virtualized CPU. 14:09:34 So, yeah, I mean that's that's pretty much the big difference there. 14:09:38 So, if we were to look at what AWS pricing is for edu for that, graphics, x large that runs at $4 and 10 cents per hour per student, we took that times are same 50 students. 14:09:52 We got $205 per hour for those 50 students times approximately 20 days per month, times the nine months they're in school, equal about 40 $100 one hour per day for 50 students only take that and you're going to get a total of $36,900 a year. 14:10:12 plus they have a reduced rate for what they're kind of like off time fees, I don't know what the actual verbiage is there but essentially when they're powered down you're, you're still paying a fee. 14:10:22 So, that's kind of what we looked at and comparing AWS and again I know that's different for every school, some of you can get by with the lower specs, 14:10:33 we are integrating in with L dap so students are logging in very similar to they were as they would to their labs. 14:10:43 I'm not going to talk all about this so I'm just going to keep going, essentially, you can see we had a Google Chrome OS and application so that they want to upload things from a flash drive, they can do that, or from their network drives or Google drive's. 14:10:59 Well essentially this is kind of what our Project Lead the Way lab looked for look like before. 14:11:05 You can see we you know again had all the kind of the towers that were mounted down below. 14:11:13 And we decided to replace those, we still some students still want the larger screen that was a concern for some of the teachers, it's not necessarily needed but if you're working on, you know, AutoCAD or inventor it's nice to have that bigger screen 14:11:28 real estate so if if the lab does want to be in there, then they can be and this is essentially what it ended up looking like at the end of the day and we see we have no towers here this is just monitors, but provide an HDMI cable their form and a keyboard 14:11:42 and mouse if they want to use it. I think it really cleaned it up. 14:11:46 You can see here this is a student, the student chooses to keep their Chromebook. Just shut and plug in directly and here they are in my apps using inventor, and some students choose to do this, where they might have the instructions from Canvas on their 14:12:02 Chromebook and then their falling through in the assignment on the big screen. 14:12:08 So now we're going to do a quick demo of what it looks like and in real time and of course you know how demos go sometimes so we'll see how it goes here does anybody have any questions so far 14:12:25 When you probably said while I was dabbling with somebody that walks into the room What do you guys use for the other side for the client side. 14:12:33 So the students are essentially just. 14:12:36 You mean the actual students on the Chromebooks, yeah oh they're on Chromebooks. Okay. Yep. 14:12:41 Yep. 14:12:45 Have a question is, is this available to the students outside of your school network. 14:12:50 So john Do you want to talk about the VPN configuration on this. Yeah, so what we do is we push. So, our configuration is actually two servers one is the metal for the actual applications and the other one is for VPN, and access to the machine from the 14:13:06 outside so we actually push an open VPN connection to every Chromebook and the students are allowed to then connect to the VPN and they're just allowed to access the server, and they can they can get to it just like, just like they were sitting at the 14:13:20 school. 14:13:24 Thank you. 14:13:28 Okay, so, so essentially when our students are doing. And again I'm going through a Google meet so you know that's not gonna what the what the best or render the best at all times here but we're going to try it. 14:13:44 So for our students they're going through clever, some of them just have it bookmarked. 14:13:50 But since right here my apps. 14:13:55 Students logging in with their LD app their Active Directory credentials. 14:14:02 And in this case, 14:14:06 I'm logging in as a student. 14:14:13 So then the student is just going to see a list of applications that they have access to. 14:14:19 And then up at the top shows the applications that they might currently have open. So for example, if I go to REM it, and also pass patch passes the those credentials through here. 14:14:35 The student will log in. 14:14:47 Of course, this thing is going to take its time when since it's live but. 14:14:53 There we go. 14:14:54 So a student in this case does not have a, you know, a desktop experience for say it is simply the application that's launching the first time the student launches the application, it will ask them, you know, for the license file. 14:15:13 So when we get students instructions that's a one time thing but, and I'll talk about that here in just a minute, but essentially our, our experience has been. 14:15:37 in the lab is comparison to through my apps. I mean, as I've toggle through these tabs. There's really no latency. As I, you know, zoom in and out of the projects and you guys have to bear in mind I know absolutely nothing about inventor, or rabbit so 14:15:51 if anyone has anything they want me to attempt to do. 14:15:56 Please do and this this renders a lot less smooth through Google mate than what it actually does so just keep that in mind, but I wanted to just show you that the platform itself. 14:16:09 So if the student wanted to get out rabbit. Go and launch another app again, I'll see if I can get one that 14:16:22 maybe would show the lice asking for the license. 14:16:27 Okay, so this is flow arm. And again I know nothing about this product somebody you're probably more well versed in what they actually use than what I am, but i'm john to do you have anything to add at this point. 14:16:45 I think the one thing that I just want to say as I'm the students in the lab, one of the things that we wanted to make sure that we can do is make sure that they can actually connect the robots and be able to use them from the Chromebook, I mean that 14:16:56 was kind of a requirement so we do have a solution for that as well so the students can run. 14:17:03 Basically any USB device in their session and control robots do whatever else so I just wanted to mention that. Yeah. That is true. So for those classes that have, you know, again they spend part of the semester building out their robots and then they 14:17:17 need to send the code to it and then they go back and revise the code and they send it again. 14:17:22 They can in their labs plug directly into the robots. Plug the robots into the USB hub, that's in those that's in that class builds classrooms and send the code to their robots and then go back and revise. 14:17:38 So, again, I didn't, I didn't want to just talk about it I wanted to actually show you a little bit of what that platform looks like so you can see it's really really easy for kids to us. 14:17:47 And again, you don't have to give them access to all applications, I'm going to switch over to off of the Chromebook, and over to my machine here and just kind of show you a little bit on the administrative side. 14:18:13 On this side if a student has a problem if there's an active session. 14:18:17 Then I could go in here and kill those sessions so basically just get them started back up again if they have a problem here all the users pulling from Active Directory here all the connections and this is where basically I'll go in and, you know, I want 14:18:34 to deploy a new application. I'll show you how simple that is. 14:18:37 But for example if I wanted to find a student here, we'll go with Ethan. 14:18:44 You can see, Ethan only has access to rabbit because that's all he needs for the middle school class that he's in so I don't, you don't have to give them everything. 14:18:51 But if I want to. And I'll go over here to all connections then all I've got to do is simply check the boxes here and hit save, to give that student access to that way we typically do it is at the beginning of the semesters will get a roster from the 14:19:05 teacher, and then we'll quick go in and assign the applications to whatever the students are in that class. You're not usually we're not usually talking, there's, you know, 20 some students in the class. 14:19:24 Okay, let's see here. No, I know it's going to show. All right, I'm going to show this and then we'll see what questions you guys have. 14:19:32 So if I click on inventor. What I do if I want to want to deploy a new application I'll just come down and clone because most of this information remains the same each time. 14:19:42 So I'm going to go say okay I'm going to deploy. 14:19:46 Somebody have something they give me an example of an application might be in your project lead the way classes and they have one. 14:19:58 Photoshop. Yeah, there we go so robot see Photoshop so Photoshop first one I saw. 14:20:06 If I wanted to install Photoshop I'm going to just punch in the name here Photoshop, all this information is the same, where it's sitting and my network the credentials here, the only thing I'm going to change is right here it's wondering what program, 14:20:20 are we looking for on that server that's running my apps in this case, it's not inventor, right. So I'm going to show you quickly what it looks like from the administration side, which is basically all my involvement, which is installing the applications 14:20:43 instead of installing it on, you know, an image or on, you know, 30 machines I'm installing it on one server. 14:20:53 And I'm going to show you that here in just a split second. 14:20:58 Stop share here so I can get back to the right screen. 14:21:07 Okay. 14:21:09 So, can you guys see this. 14:21:14 Alright, so essentially on Server Manager then what I'm going to do is I would install Photoshop just like I normally would, on this server. 14:21:23 And then up here under Remote Desktop Services and under quick session collections. It's going to say, you know, here's the list of applications that you've installed recently on the server. 14:21:35 And all I want to do is go up here to task and I'm going to tell this server I want to publish an application. 14:21:40 So, I am, it's saying it's retrieving the list of application so all you would do Britain this place. Look for your Photoshop installer. So let's say, this is it. 14:21:54 Okay, maybe not. Let's see Google Chrome, and I hit next and then hit Publish. And then you can see here, I'm not going to actually do it because I already have it, it gives it this alias right so all these programs have an alias, and if you see, inventor 14:22:11 in here matches that alias that I said you would revise and my apps that's all you do. 14:22:16 So I all I do is I take pen and paper I copy down the alias so CV designer cell setup I jump back over to Glock, and I enter in the, the alias of that. 14:22:28 And then that's an available connection then for the students. So it's really really easy to publish applications. I think I had to do is, 14:22:38 you know, switch over to lm tool so it's a network license so if you've got all the installers through PLTW that are single or standalone licensing you got to migrate that over I did a combined license file for all of them. 14:22:54 So mindsets, just right here. So you take all the combined licensing for the different applications that you might have. 14:23:05 and throw them into one license file, then that Ellen tools is basically just running a light, the network license version of all the AutoCAD products. 14:23:27 We didn't want to take too much of your time here but that's essentially how the product works in nutshell. 14:23:37 Real quick demo there So does anybody have any questions or anything they want to ask it either john or myself. 14:23:53 Do you wanna expand a little bit on saving files he said you currently allow student access to Google Chrome, so that's two separate apps or sessions or how does. 14:24:01 If they do a File Save and AutoCAD for instance, does that they save it locally, and then from there access it through Chrome. 14:24:08 Yeah, so essentially what they'll do is like, you know, in that pain of recent application so students they've gotten an inventor file they've just saved it. 14:24:20 A lot of our students still save like their files just because it's historically been this way, not because it has to be but some choose to put it on Google and other choose to put it on their network drive, which is basically just for that class so then 14:24:29 students will go to the Google Chrome application that's in my apps, and they have access then upload it into Canvas or upload their assignments. 14:24:38 Gotcha. Thanks. Yeah, good question. 14:24:42 We had and I had to. I'm sorry if you already answered this question but what what kind of bandwidth usage etc. When you're outside. I mean, does it hold up pretty well with some of the scheduler internet connectivity or how does that work. 14:24:54 Yeah, so well done it, you're gonna pitch in there, but what I was gonna say is, we've, we've, we've not seen an issue even for students and we are students on their Chromebook network is are limited to 25 meg down and about 15 up, and you know if they 14:25:16 switched over to the guest network and attempted to do this and about five Meg, you know. Yeah, you would see a performance decrease, but for us. 14:25:25 We've not seen an issue with just our 25 meg per per student and and what we do is is inside of Windows we actually turn off the H 265 and company so it's a little bit more GPU intensive on land and system but it does decrease quite a bit since Google 14:25:43 Chrome fully supports h 265. So, you know, we could probably squeeze it down a little more but we wanted to keep the quality, high to. 14:25:53 Thank you. 14:26:00 I said it's just an option because you guys are considering replacing your Project Lead the Way labs coming up or you've been wanting to do this, you're looking for something that's really pretty affordable, and I can tell you that the support I get from 14:26:11 a MP is extremely responsive and cost a lot less than AWS so 14:26:19 yeah I'll put John's email there if you guys want to jot this down. 14:26:23 That's his email address. JOHN at get a NP calm, and he'd be happy to get in touch with the guys again. 14:26:35 For us, there's no going back. 14:26:37 We don't. We've ripped out all those lab machines now first couple months we you know, held on to them just to make sure things went well and now this is what john was our second school year completed now with this and. 14:26:50 Yep, that's right. Yep. And so far we're just extremely pleased. So, but if we benefited from it and then I showcase it to you guys so thank you so do you have okay so you're you built this for 50 students is that the equipment that you have, what can 14:27:12 you do more than 50 on it and they're going to depend on it or what's the capacity. Sure, yeah I mean, it really depends on the application you're using, but luckily Microsoft also bundles and a load balancer. 14:27:24 So you could you could have more servers doing the same thing, and students would be load balanced across them so if you needed to have 500 students on at once you definitely could. 14:27:33 And our price does include the RDP licenses. 14:27:37 Yeah, good, good question. Josh, how's Good question. 14:27:41 So, and I'm assuming that that because it's hosted locally that probably eliminate some of the issues with licensing it's just all seen as school district licensing. 14:27:52 That's right, that's right, Scott. Yep. 14:27:54 Okay. 14:27:56 Now if I understand correctly so you have one, one server that's the one that has GPUs installed in it. And that's just a Windows Server and datacenter additional I'm assuming, if we're running applications or is there more than that, it's just Windows 14:28:11 Server standard, and then we also put in and this land and chooses to put this in a VMware environment but the VPN we have we did put a server and VPN but he runs the connection broker, and the licensing server on a VMware, but we can run that on the, 14:28:26 on the secondary machine, if we need to. We can either integrate into your Active Directory or into your Google Cloud App, or, or run separately completely separate from everything else too. 14:28:39 And I'm sure I'm assuming the price would scale either up or down depending on what the, what a school district would need like if if they're just looking to run Office apps or the full blown Office apps would scale down a little bit or yeah yeah for 14:29:02 for sure though the price of the pricing scalable it's just for what we put in Atlanta and this is what we had to had to spend. Okay, so what's the school is interested in contacting, I mean, they just need to contact you then set that particular part 14:29:09 of it up, or what's what's the best way to go about what would be the process for like evaluation, what do they need for equipment, what do they want. 14:29:18 Yeah, I think what we do is, as you probably know send me an email, or and I'll either respond or one of the guys will and will will we'll get back to you, maybe even to a school site doesn't kind of see what your situation is because this yet, keep in 14:29:30 mind I don't have any pricing on this yet, but it can be hosted in the cloud, too. So if you don't want to run those applications yourself but we can run them in the cloud as well. 14:29:39 So, kind of just get the lay of the land of your landscape to see what's it. 14:29:57 Another thing to a 50s got a decommission server server you, you know again just taken out email that you know product, the serial number, just the specific model to john and asked him hey this is what I'm hoping to run Do you think this would work and 14:30:02 they'll get back to you whether or not that's something that would be able to work for you. 14:30:08 we'll get back to you whether or not that's something that would be able to work for you. Sure. I was going back to the messages on chat. And there was question is this based off of the guacamole project, and Yep, it is it's definitely based on the guacamole so we've done some hacks to it to 14:30:20 make it integrate well. 14:30:22 But yeah, pretty much, it's, it's the guacamole project. 14:30:32 All right. Anyone else have any other questions about about this. 14:30:43 Well thank you, landing a job for for doing this presentation I know we've been talking about it for quite a while here and, you know, probably a good thing that have have finally brought to the group and stuff on it so appreciate that part of it.